Wednesday, January 12, 2011

IDEAS NOT PERSONS

Disagreeing with a belief system and saying so without condemning the holder of the beliefs and with out name calling or passing personal comment is not hate speech. It also is not atheism(!) I read plenty of hate speech here-speech that DOES condemn the person. I try hard not to be guilty of that and I have swiftly rectified it if I have made such an error. Pointing to inconsistencies in a belief system is not hate speech though I am not ignorant enough of people that I am not aware that some will lash out. I block those people. No second chances. Only one chance to abuse me. It surprises me that others just allow it by their silence although I ought not be really as that is why abuse of all kinds happen. I will, as long as I am able, speak my mind, decrying ideas that I see as harmful or moronic, pointing out why I do, and pointing out inconsistencies as I see them. I will continue to do so as I always have - without attacking the person as ideas and people are NOT the same thing.

I wrote the above words in response to a couple of really unpleasant personal attacks.  I did not address the individuals directly and I can no longer see any of their comments because I set my membership that way.

I find people who have set ideas find it very difficult to think outside of those ideas.  I am astonished by the amount people who conclude I am an atheist because I do not share their religious beliefs.  I also fail to understand why they classify disagreement over beliefs as hate speech. Certainly, much of what these people write I consider to be hate speech because they are attacking people and specifically a group of people.  There is no point yelling hate speech at them so I just point out the inconsistencies which is enough to get one a good flogging.

In this particular discussion people were praising the Arizona State government for making it illegal to picket funerals and thus preventing the Westboro Baptist Church from picketing the funerals of the people who were killed in the shooting a few days ago. some of the posters who were deeply critical of the WBC and described them as evil etc held exactly the same beliefs as them, they just behaved differently! That sort of inconsistency and self deceit ought to be pointed out by anyone who can see it. it is very possible to do so without attacking the person.  One will still be accused of it regardless but accusation is not truth.

 

4 comments:

Jo :) said...

I agree about people being able to practice their own religion, and this is not an attck on you, but rather for you to see a different side.
Maybe the posters in question, wored it wrong and as most people do, took the holier than tho stance.
However, as far as the Westbro ppl pickiting a funeral is concerned, you said it yourself: "it is very possible to do so without attacking the person."
Also "they just behaved differently!".
This is a pretty extreme example, but fundamentalist Muslims believe the same as Muslims, they just behave differently also.
Fundamentalist Christians: picket funerals with hate speech, upsetting more, already grieving family and frinds.
Fundamentalist Muslims, blow shit up and make people and the world grieve.
We all live together, and whatever you believe is YOUR business, not shoved down others throats, what they believe is THEIRS.
You have to agree that there has to be a line in which taking ones belieifs to the people should nto be crossed? :)

Unknown said...

jo- read your message several times and am confused. it seems to me you read my post and came away with the opinion that I think it is wrong to ban the WBC picketing funerals. NO! Here it could not happen as it is already illegal and has been always., The whole point to my post was that a bunch of hypocrites were condemning the WBC whilst holding the same views as the WBC. I find that to be hypocritical and just because they stand with placards at funerals does not make their beliefs less hateful.

Jo :) said...

hehe I did!!
Not as the enirity of your post, but did think that was part of it.
I thought that you were calling them hyprocrits because they had the same christian belief, but didn't believe in the aggression of the crazies at Westbro.
Sorry :) *oops* :)
I should think before opening my gob! Always been my problem :P hehe

Heather W. Torrance said...

I'm not sure anyone actually agrees with the Westboro Baptist Church. They used to come to our campus every year and yell at girls for wearing make-up, calling them whores. I can't remember what other objections they had to a typical college-student lifestyle. But in any case, they now have begun picketing funerals not only of soldiers, but also of children. They say that the deaths are caused by whatever sin they are against that day.

But the truth is, they are not really about religion, they are about money. They picket funerals because they want someone to punch them or assault them in some other way so they can then sue them. They are completely uninterested in spreading their message - in fact, the more outrageous their message is, the more likely they are to cause a ruckus that would lead to a lawsuit. That's why their targets change every couple of years.